I was really excited to get an opportunity to carry out this interview as Bill Beswick is an individual I am acutely aware of. Firstly, as a huge Manchester United fan. Additionally, given my background and interest in Sport Psychology, it made the opportunity to pick his mind even more appealing. Bill Beswick is a recognised leader in the area of applied Sports Psychology. Bill has worked professionally with teams such as Derby County, Manchester United, Middlesbrough and Sunderland. More, he became the first Sports Psychologist operating fully in professional English football. At present, Bill is consultant Club Psychologist to FC Twente in the Dutch Eredivisie. As someone who is trying to make their way in this profession, it was a great opportunity to meet Bill and pick his brain.
Often, when I explain to people that I am training to be a Sports Psychologist, it’s met with a confused look, followed by “What is that?”
For someone reading this who is unfamiliar with the concept of Sports Psychology, what is Sports Psychology, Bill?
There are four contests within a football match; each team is trying to dominate physically, technically, and tactically, firstly. But each team is also trying to dominate the other mentally. So, Sports Psychology is helping coaches, athletes and teams achieve a winning state of mind; a state of mind that allows them to maximise their physical, technical and tactical skills.
How – from your perspective – do you go about teaching individuals to develop a winning mindset?
The first stage for me is to look at what a winning mindset is for their game, their team. What puts them mentally and emotionally is the best situation to give their best performance? So, we discuss what are we trying to achieve? The second thing we look at is: What can get in the way of that mindset? What are the barriers and obstacles? When have you played your best game and when have you played your worst game? And what was the difference? What contributes to you not operating efficiently mentally? Then, we look at some of the strategies we might use together to get to that winning mindset. It’s a process. But step one is convincing the athlete or the team that attitude really is important; it’s a power driver. We talk about the physicality of players but players don’t operate physically unless they have an attitude to training, to weight lifting, to good sleep, to good nutrition, to doing the right things. So, attitude comes into everything players do.
Of course, you began as a basketball coach; a successful one, it has to be said, winning a gold medal at the Commonwealth Games. How or why did you get involved in Psychology?
That came from the basketball [getting involved in Psychology]. I coached all over the world. I coached in some very high-pressured games. As a coach, I started off trying to recruit talent. But, the more I coached, the more I became influenced by attitude; which players were good at the end of the games when the pressure was there? Which player would take the big shot? The final shot of the game, to win or lose. Which players wouldn’t take that shot? Who could I trust? Who stepped up in the arena and who stepped down? That began to dominate my thinking and I studied Psychology at University and so, I began to put the two things together and thought that there was something missing from our coaching in this country. So, I decided I would investigate.
Do you think being a coach first helped you? In the sense that you had an understanding to some extent regarding the pressure the players were feeling?
Enormously. You’re quite right. I think it gave me an empathy and a sensitivity towards players. Importantly, it gave me the language of sport. It gave me the language of the dressing room, the language of the players, the language of the coaches. I understood what they were going through. I understood the way I could get to them. I think you could present the greatest Sports Psychology lecture in the world and it will leave players dead. They won’t be interested. But, if you change that and get into their language and talk about what they consider to be important, you can get through to them. So, I knew how to get through to players. I knew how to present to players in their language, in ways that they would understand.
Of course, this is a Manchester United fanzine so let’s get more into Manchester United. How did your move to Manchester United as a Sports Psychologist come about?
It came through Steve McClaren. I was at Derby County and Jim Smith was the manager, with Steve as the assistant. I was the Sport Psychologist. We’d been there for four or five years and we had done very well. We played Manchester United on a Tuesday night and Sir Alex Ferguson was very impressed with our tactics. After the game, Steve explained why we had done what we did [to Sir Alex]. We drew 1-1. Within the next week, Steve was at Manchester United. It was about half way through the season and I stayed at Derby and at the end of the season, Steve had a word with Sir Alex and said we should bring in this guy. Sir Alex said yes.
So, was there then a meeting between you and Sir Alex?
I had an interview with Sir Alex. I got the phone call at 10pm on a Saturday night to come in the following morning, Sunday at 7am, for a chat. Alex had just come out of the gym at the training ground. We sat in his office and he poured some tea. He asked me “How do I keep my team number one” and thank God, Jimmy, I knew the answer! I got lucky on that occasion. I said: “Think, train and behave every day like you’re number two.” He loved that and I think that was the interview over. I was gone in five minutes and started the Monday.
Train like you are number two. Pretty powerful.
It comes back to that thing of attitude. When you get to number one, don’t take on the attitude of being number one. Stay in the attitude that you are number two. There is some team out there that is training hard to beat you. There is some player out there that is trying to take your position. Think number two and that means you will keep your training and your preparation up to that top level. Thinking number one leads to complacency.
Of course, at that time, there were some big names at the club. Were the players wary at first or receptive? Did you have to win them over?
I think they were wary. It wasn’t quite as bad as Derby when players ran down the other way of the corridor when they saw me coming. I think Psychology at that time was something that players were wary of. But one of the reasons that the United players were there was because of their determination to be the best. The squad there was fantastic. They operated at a minimum level of 90% performance. They would listen to me if they thought I could give them another 1%. If I could take them to 91%, or from 94% to 95%, they would work with me; if they could get an extra 1%. That was their dedication to being the best.
I am a big believer in 1%’s. I try to get across to players when working with them that my work won’t guarantee them a 10/10 performance. But it might turn a 6/10 performance into a 7/10, or a 4/10 performance into a 6/10. Sometimes, that might be the best you can do on that given day, so I am a big believer in the 1%’s.
Yes. 1% is an attitude. An attitude of getting the best out of yourself. There are occasions where I have worked with a player and shifted him 10% because there has just been a complete change in his approach to the game and how he sees himself. For that player, it was a massive change. But I think when you reach the level of Manchester United, any conversation other than 1%’s is not on.
You mentioned Derby County there. The idea of a player running down the corridor when he saw you coming. I suppose the perception of Psychology..when players hear that word, they think of Freud, men in suits, lying on a couch.
(laughs)
Generally speaking, how do you navigate that resistance?
You build relationships. You don’t push it when you go to a club or force yourselves on the players. I think just being around and breaking down the stereotype so that they can see you are just a normal guy and a guy who can have a laugh and joins in. I would collect the balls at the end of the session or do something to help so they can see that I am an ordinary guy. Another advantage I had – though it’s not an advantage now because I am older – when I went to United, I was fifty-five; similar to Alex. I got some respect for being a senior person. But I think you build relationships and you don’t try and force your agenda on the players.
What was your daily role at United? Were you like a fly on the wall reporting your observations back to Sir Alex?
I mostly worked with Steve but I would observe, as you say. I was very fortunate in the sense that coaches look at technical things. They are absorbed in training, looking at balls and bibs. I look at people. I shared a desk with Tony Coton, the Goalkeeping Coach and my office overlooked the players’ car park. I would observe attitude and clues to attitude. For example, I observed the players that came in for a 10:30am start at 9:30am, like the Nevilles. Or I would observe a player that came in at 10:29am for a 10:30am start. I would look at general mood and morale; coming off a defeat, coming off a big win, three games in a week. I would talk to Steve and the coaches about maintaining mood and morale; what the players needed, where their attitude was, what might be a good suggestion for a meeting. I would also pick out individual players and I remember one player who was a really good guy but his body language was poor. I said to him on the way back from the training field “Is everything okay Son?” and he told me his father was dying back home. He wanted to be with him and he felt he couldn’t because of his contract. Of course, the club dealt with that brilliantly once I alerted them to it. Those were the kind of things I did; being ready for incidents, or crises, and helping people navigate through that.
You mentioned the idea of a big defeat there and maintaining morale. What kind of things would you suggest to raise morale if there was a big defeat?
I’d look at the big picture, first of all. But we didn’t have many big defeats when I was there! It was the best job I ever had! At Derby, we’d lose two in four, draw one and win one. Celebrate the wins as it’s a good moment. Keep the defeats in perspective and look at the big picture. A defeat for any coach or any team is a disaster. But nobody is going to go through the season unbeaten so you have to look at the big picture. Sometimes, you are going to get a bad day at the office. That’s okay, you can deal with that in a League season, provided you have the attitude to come back the following game. If you get defeated and let that erode your attitude or your confidence, then you are really sinking. So, I would watch for what I call “downward spirals” which are clues I look for to say a team is going down in its attitude. What gets them back again towards an upward spiral? My role would be to look for that.
You mentioned the idea of the Nevilles there, coming in early. To me, the Nevilles are examples of people who got the very best out of themselves and had great attitudes. Have you come across players who were incredibly talented but their attitude wasn’t enough to get the best out of themselves?
Oh yes. Really, there are three categories of player. There is the player with “A-Grade” talent and “A-Grade” attitude. They’re the Gods! There are very few of those. Then, you come across players with “A-Grade” talent and “B-Grade” attitude. They’re the players that could do it but don’t because they don’t have the character or the toughness to do it; they let you down. You watch them in practice and think “God. He is terrific” but in a game away from home, when it’s raining and he is being kicked, he disappears. The third group is “B-Grade” talent and “A-Grade” attitude. The Premier League is full of those and the Nevilles are great examples. Fantastic attitudes; Gary especially. A competitive warrior. They maximized on every opportunity they had and were worth a place in the team because of their attitude.
What was Alex Ferguson like to work with and how much freedom did he give you?
Enormous. He was very good to work for as long as he felt you were making a positive contribution. I mean, he didn’t need me when he took me to the club. But he thought if I could add 1%, I was worth it. We were of a similar age so there was a respect there. He did his thing and let me do mine and I really valued that trust he had in me. I noticed that when I had a meeting with the players, he would slip in the back with his soup and his cup of tea. He’d just listen for five or ten minutes to ensure that it was stuff that he approved of. I think it was a big step for him to take me on, and for Jim Smyth at Derby. They were tough, traditional managers. But both of them had something about them that allowed them to move forward into a new world and take on new ideas.
What do you think was Ferguson’s biggest strength as a leader of a group of people?
Every day, he gave three things. Firstly, Direction. That direction was “be the best.” He gave momentum, he never stopped working. He kept the season running. The third thing he gave was standards of performance. He kept his standards very high and he wouldn’t allow anybody to drop below there. He was a massive influence at the club and he controlled everything. He set a winning mindset and he wouldn’t allow them to move from that.
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Can it be tough working as part of a multi-disciplinary team with coaches, managers, physios and you as the psychologist, with everyone having their own separate objectives?
It can be but I rather like that challenge because I think part of what I do is spread what attitude we are looking from from the players. I remember when I joined the Olympic swimming team, I brought all the staff together, all the non-coaches. The coaches got all the attention and the support staff – who were fantastic – were ignored. So, I brought them all together to ask them one question and asked them to think about it: “How do you help our swimmers swim faster?” So, the physios, the doctors, the kit men and the analysts had to talk for three minutes about how they helped our players. I did that at Manchester United and asked each member of staff “how do you help Manchester United win? Because if you don’t, you shouldn’t be here.” So, you can create a mindset that goes across the club and that can be very powerful.
Of course, a big aspect of your work is the notion of confidentiality. Have there ever been times where managers would ask you the specifics of a one-to-one conversation and how do you manage that if so? How does it go down?
(laughs) Not very well! The more insecure a manager is..I remember after my first meeting with a player, Jim Smith stormed in, asking what he had said! I had the interesting issue of not telling him. The Bald Eagle was not happy. So, I think you get them used to it and I have always reassured a manager that if there was something important that he needed to know, I would find a way of telling him without breaking confidentiality. So, it might be that one player tells me something, a second player tells me the same thing and a third player tells me the same thing. I might decide that is something a manager should know. It is then up to me to find a subtle way of telling him without naming any players. For example, maybe the feeling in the group is that training is too long on a Friday before a game day. That is something a manager needs to know but he doesn’t need to know who told me.
You can imagine – particularly as an Irish man – that I got a lot of questions about Roy Keane. What was Roy like to work with?
Lovely. Difficult. Challenging. Intense. Focused. Committed. He was “A-Grade” talent and “A-Grade” attitude. A fierce warrior and competitor. There are very few players I call warriors. Some players just turn up. Some players turn up to train. Some players turn up to compete and some players turn up to win. Some players turn up to dominate. Roy turned up to dominate. He was challenging because he didn’t take bullshit. He questioned everything you said to him. He challenged it. But when you said something that was meaningful and he knew it was, then he was brilliant. He would take that and he would run with it. I loved working with him.
Obviously, towards the end of Keane’s United career, there was the big fallout with Ferguson. As someone who worked closely with both, did you notice similar traits that both Keane and Ferguson shared?
Yes. High performers are extremely committed and challenge themselves all the time. They never accept mediocrity. They never want to be average; always striving for the best and challenging the people around them to be the best. They hate defeat and tend to see what they didn’t achieve in the game, rather than what they did. It is true in many respects that Roy and Alex were very similar people which is maybe why they had some difficulties. They are both winners and warriors. Both were fantastic and interesting to work with and both were very important to the success of United.
Who were some of the funniest characters at United?
Oh! Good question. I had many funny moments. Humour is so important when you are working in a stressful environment. It can get too serious and they are young men. I think hard work can be fun. Paul Scholes was very funny. He had a very good, dry sense of humour. Some of the humour I can’t repeat! They say “Humour is like an instant holiday.” Everything comes out and you relax.
Interview originally published in Manchester United podcast Red News in 2022.
Jimmy Williams, Cognitive-Behavioural Therapy 